Monthly Archives: April 2012

On The Recent MRA/MGTOW/Manosphere Debate Re Relationships With Women

Clarification: MGTOWs such as Stardusk and Barbarossaaaa have lately taken issue with some things said by RockingMrE and especially his cadre of commenters. Let me first say that I am a big fan of RME, sure not as big of a fan as I am of Bernard Chapin, so I was a bit conflicted to see Barb and Star “going at” RME. I like all three and thought “can’t we all just get along.” I still stand by RockingMrE as an indeed Rocking MRA. It seems many of the criticisms levied by Barb/Star are more directed at RME’s commenters, and I’ve not read those threads yet.

As I understand it, IMHO, It SOUNDS like, at least from those two above vids from Star and Barb, that RME or “his camp” are really emphasizing NAWALT and talking about loving “ideal” hetero rels, and may be using a strawman or ad hominem to suggest that Star has “A Gaping Wound” due to alleged emotional drainage due to alleged recent bad rels, which he stated was not the case. But It’s important that he addressed what should be called “the gaping wound shaming tactic” because at root, it is a kind of shaming tactic: “your arguments are not valid because you’re just angry over personal events, and that’s clouding your judgment”, which I’ve seen used before against MGTOWs, marriage-avoiders, happy bachelors, etc.

If Briffault’s Law and the tendency of Female Hypergamy is at all valid, then it correlates that, although both men and women are self-interested as most organisms are, women are generally MORE self-interested than men, and will take advantage of men’s tendency to Sacrifice Themselves for the Benefit of Women, and of course NAWALT, but “NAWALT” is actually a deflection/strawman of the ACTUAL POINT, which is, women are, on average, more selfishly exploitative than men, and that The Modern Welfare State acts as a wealth and power transfer generally from men TO women and makes individual men all the more disposable in the everyday lives of women.

MGTOWs say it’s a bit unreasonable to hold out an example of a NARALT Rel, because men have a natural tendency to want to find the proverbial “needle in a haystack”, or as Star puts it, “a microorganism in the cosmos”, or as I might as “an atom in an ocean.” “So you’re saying there’s a chance.” Otherwise logical men will blindly ignore the cost/benefit difference in this case, when their time, energy, strength, resources, wealth, effort, brains etc could be MUCCHHHH more effectively used to further their OWN interests and goals.

Barb and Star also do a good job explaining that MGTOW does not mean “celibacy”.

And there’s the idea of “Team Woman” (Complementarian Loners?) and also Armageddon1115 on Youtube talked about something similar: Do self-proclaimed “anti-feminist” women WALK THE TALK, or do they implicitly support or not explicitly discourage Narcissistic Feminist Entitlement?

I still Like and Respect Rocking Mr E and could never see myself unsubscribing or stopping listen unless he were magically possessed by Hugo Schwyzer AND David Futrelle. But Star and Barb bring up some solid points that are too important to ignore. I myself still have some home for the “atom in an ocean”, although right now I abide by “guilty until proven innocent” and have learned to put my interests and goals first.

There’s nothing wrong with the “me first” concept, the problem is when people want something for nothing.

RME talks about “reciprocal altruism”, but Star counters that with: such a thing is definitionally impossible, and “MUTUAL REWARD” is more like it.

Ok I’m getting closer to STARTING A NEW BLOG where I post longer things like this basically. But the Twitter’s not going anywhere. Ideally I would use just twitter and a VLOG, a Youtube Channel with Me Talking and Ranting and Rambling in imitation of all my Youtube Heroes, because, right now, I believe oratory would be more effective than writing. For me, and for people like me. But again, privacy and anonymity would be even MORE at stake when you hear my voice. I of course would not show my face, but I would want to find a way to disguise my voice so a. it wouldn’t sound too ridiculously fake b. it couldn’t be reverse engineered to reveal my real voice and blackmail me out of any and all jobs for the rest of my life hahahahahah lololololol. http://tl.gd/h5083a

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THIS TWT IS AN UNOFFICIAL BLOG : Enlarging

I felt compelled, possibly divinely, to post a twitlonger as a way to develop, enhance, expound, expand, ENLARGE hahaha on the broad strokes made by my twitter. In keeping with the off the cuff microblogging approach of twitter, I would like to cut myself off at about 15 minutes and not check the spelling or whatnot. just real fast dump. this TLDR wall of text approach will also discourage any would-be career killers from reading too much and killing my (future, haha) career. As anonymity and privacy was one of the reasons I retired my previous Blog (almost a year ago!) but I do like writing bloggishly. The problem was that too many personal details had gradually crept in. The blog is still out there for people who are obsessionally infatuated in me and contains a ton of great non-personal commentary, but it is private and your email address has to be approved by me on an individual basis!

First, Men’s rights, Game, Misandry, manosphere issues. As an erstwhile Pv$$y Addict, I will be concerned with the “Micro”-Sexual issues of men vs. women for a long time to come, and here my arguments are in a large part formed in dialogue with the ideas presented by much better writers, namely Heartiste / Citizen Renegade / Roissy. This is not to say I am in 100% agreement with him or sheopleishly parrot all his ideas. But 70%? Probably!

Kinda stream of consciousness this will be. Now a full-blown MGTOW like Barbarossa views Heartiste as a lame “PICK UP ARTIST” and SLAVE to Pu55y. I’m not sure you could call Barb “anti-game”, and anti-game does get talked about a lot on Game blogs like Heartiste, and not favourably as You might surmise. A guy like Alek Novy, a notable “Anti-Gamer”, is ruthlessly mocked. I don’t think all this man-on-man mockery is superproductive to the manosphere as a whole. Can’t we all just get along? I really like Barbarossa but I really like Heartiste too. At least Heartiste isn’t lamely trying to SELL A PRODUCT, those are the guys I have very little respect for and would reserve the term “pick up artist” as a pejoriative for them. As opposed to guys who study and write on “GAME”, which I view as basically male/female attraction, male charisma and social power, what is “attractive”, mate values, sexual selection, the same thing Darwin talked about, drawing from evolutionary psychology, human bio diversity, softer and harder sciences alike.

Definition of terms can be problematic.

I might need 20 minutes, he11 this could be an hour but I dont WANT to go longer than 20 minutes so Im just gonna take a 1000 yard view.

My top manosphere guys have been largely Youtube fellows because I personally prefer listening to reading, although I like to read when I have the attention span. (In the middle of “America Alone” by Mark Steyn (total mancrush on his ridiculously charismatic personality!) and “Life at the bottom” by Theodore Dalrymple and a little of “Flipside of feminism” by Venker/Schlafly and “Why men are the way they are” by warren farrel and a bit of “Day bang” by roosh v and trying to start “The long march” by roger kimball, i think that’s all at the moment. I rarely FINISH books or read them cover to cover quickly. If I’m reading it will be those books, or blogs, namely heartiste, gucci little piggy / chuck rudd, in mala fide & ferdiand bardamu (waiting for that book man!), reddits, various fora, some of a voice for men, etc.

But as I say, my preferred method is chilling out and listening to people talk on my mp3 player, for which I use a grabber to download mp3 audios of youtube videos, and my top people there are, first and foremost, Bernard Chapin my eternal mancrush, barbarossa, Stardusk and Rocking Mr E have been welcome newcomers, Girl Writes What who deserves 15 minutes of me talking about her hahaha, John the Other, The Ignored Gender is also a fantastic new guy I’ve just discovered. I could talk a lot more on each of those guys, but I don’t have a lot of time, those guys are all more or less 70% in my ballpark of ideas.

Yesterday for example I listed to a Stardusk video where he was responding to Rocking Mr E, and I like and respect both of those guys mind you, but Stardusk is more “extreme” and more MGTOW and thinks relations with women are unsustainable from a natural, biological, evolutionary perspective: it’s not merely political, it’s not so much right and left and libertarian, sure politics MATTERs, but as a CATALYST that takes a NATURAL impulse of hypergamy, disposability, parasitism, and enhances it and rewards it and perpetuates it, and even if you go to a non-feminist culture, if you bring a woman from say saudi arabia to sweden for example, the feminist culture will encourage the worst tendencies of the female to emerge, no matter where she was raised.

I’m not as MGTOW as Stardusk and I’m closer to Rocking Mr E, who himself seems to enjoy a happy rel with his wife, and I am glad for him.

But then too I AM interested in concepts like “relationship game”, which HEartiste discussed but for that you really need to go read Athol Kay I’m told. But I’m not super DUPER interested in Relationship Game as of yet.

Uhh Girl Writes What IS as amazing as she’s been hyped up to be, and I think it’s interesting that one of the fastest-growing stars in the MRM is indeed a woman, and PERHAPS this speaks to the idea that women are not oppressed by a patriarchy, that overall we are more willing to listen to The Issues Of Men when they are presented by a woman. Lots of the Male MRAs are lumped in with “women-haters” indeed the SLPC just released their intelligence report which used standard leftist propaganda sources to shamefully character assassinate many prominent and not-so-prominent mras and gamers as VIOLENT HATERS. They drew largely off the writings of Manboobz David Futrelle, pretty notorious, and while you do have big names like Roosh and AVfM on there, I was really really surprised that Heartiste did not make the list. Either way the list is a pile of crap and I’ve given it more time than it’s worth.

listening to tons of black metal, no surprise, but still trying to keep the black metal fresh to me. haven’t listened to the new burzum as much as i’d thought. enjoying lots of weakling and mgla. different kinds of black metal each, but both have astounding, amazing, underrated drummers. yes you can have drumming standouts in black metal I’ve learned. of course I could talk about these topics for hours too but I wont.

Personally my intense interests are in the ideas of alpha and beta, and Darwinian Struggle To Survive, applied to my own life, with moments of great self-doubt that I am much more beta than alpha and that I don’t have the energy or the work ethic or the anti-laziness to be able to work my a55 off and pull myself up and pay my dues and put in my due diligence and keep my eyes on the prize to finally, at long last, become a Bigboy with a Bigboy job, finally have the resources and respect to be an Independent Man, finally have a Bargaining Chip to pull Young Tail, etc. Yes I said Young tail. Maybe that is one of my tragic flaws, but I’d argue self-doubt and laziness are the much more significant tragic flaws hahaha. this has been what’s drawn me more towards game and evopsych, because I am much more likely to be “interested” in younger women as opposed to older women, and IMHO, the Mating Peak occurs no later than the EARLY Twenties. If that makes me a creep, I am very comfortable with that, and I’m not interested in dialoguing with Rationalization Hamsters.

Criticism is not hate or anger or “creepiness”, however I admit that I have had to keep an eye on my anger, as I am prone to get angry moreso than a more “alpha” male, hahaha, which perhaps comes from a sense of “beta” powerlessness. Sometimes my judgement and criticism is so fervent that it does border on anger. Of course Righteous Indignation variant of Anger is OK, because its ok to be angry about Valid Injustice, but at any rate, you can’t let it be The Boss Of You, hahahaha.

perhaps most controversial has been my “pendulum swing” from left to right, from atheist to Born Again Hallelujah. of course this is not wholly the case, there are important nuances there which much be understood. I am better described as an Agnostic with a newfound Appreciation and Respect for some Religious Traditions, although I don’t think one could ever discover tangible or even philosophical PROOF of a god. I am however, have become comfortable with “going through the motions” of giving thanks to a god, because it seems to me so much less SMUG and ANNOYING and FIRST WORLD and PRIVILEGED and SWPL to be able to stop whining and be THANKFUL for the good things you DO have rather than just say either “yup i did all that” or “well it’s just an accident of me being born in a first world country” or what have you. Of course, I guess if you HAVE achieved a comfortable life and livelihood through Hard Work, you ARE Deserving to be PROUD of your hard work, I know I would be. So maybe when I am a Big455 winner making the big bucks at my STEM job then I will become a reborn again flaming atheist at age 60, hahahaha.

but doubt and sloth jeopardize that as well in this dark night of my educational soul. i’ve never LIKED school but I’ve always done disproportionately WELL in it with respect to my not really liking it. Eventually that caught up to me and I stopped caring and just skated by at the bare minimum, which was a big poor choice I made, for which I’m now paying the consequences, and which, if I were a religious man, I’d be praying to the lord to help me actively repent for, I, do a 180 and bust my a55 now. Which I sorta AM trying to do, I’ve indeed made some positive changes. But right now I’m stuck on Computer Science 2 (for example, the idea of Templates and the Standard Template Library in C++), and I think jeez if I’m finding this so hard, there’s like 6 more years to go of even HARDER stuff, plus people who are REALLY into this, like paid bigboy computer scientists, spend their free time LOOKING AT CODE FOR FUN and posting on code forums and I get stuck on Day 1 concepts and would rather sleep or listen to Bernard Chapin and theorize on alpha and beta and sexual marketplace and mating and harems and cost benefits of male female interactions and manosphere and feminism and young tail and all that sexy stuff.

So i’ve already gave away too many personal details, hahaha. but as I say, i’ve never been in love with school, which is why it was techinically a good decision not to try to get a phd, even if that was my own rationalization hamster for the brutual truth of I Didn’t Work Hard Enough When I Had My Big Chance to even be ABLE to do a phd. At any rate, my preferred phd would probably be in Evopsych and mating stuff, david buss, roy baumeister, all that stuff. that or just straight up hardcore STEM, hahaha. but getting the STEM bachelors is challenging enough.

see i view education and school as a means to an end, a key to a job, a paycheck. pay your dues then you can finally get paid, get paid enough to survive AND to spread your seed, leave a genetic legacy, etc. Yeah eventually I would like to mate and reproduce and my end of that bargain is that I do gotta be a provider in some sense. However at this point I just want to be able to provide for myself in a respectable manner. separating the bigboys from the littleboys, those who don’t want to work hard enough to survive, etc.

my advice to young men: do trade education while in high school, work your a55 off so you can do well in that and have a company pay for your STEM degree, or join the military, get some $$ to pay for a STEM degree, learn Alpha Charisma Leadership Power in the military, get a useful degree AND just as importantly get Good Experience while you do it, make yourself so marketable the employers come to YOU with your useful STEM knowledge and experience, ?????, profit, mate. Whether you want to have a traditionally monogamous rel or a harem is up to you. Although it’s probably not a good idea to get Legally Married in case your wife goes batty and decides to Take You To The Cleaners and then you’ve lost a huge part of what you’ve worked so, so, so, so hard for. Maybe have a primary “wife” which is the one you’re in “love” with the most (strongest infatuation or obsession or sense of commitment, can’t live without balblablabla), get nonlegally married to her and she can be your primary babymaker if you want heirs, and who DOESN’T hahahaha, and then if you want a harem on the side, that’s gonna be a negotiation you’re gonna have to work out with her. Just get your g0dd4mn STEM degree (and concurrent internships!) first.

have a fun week, i’ve already said way too much, i might do this again in a year or so since I want to minimize the privacy risks of having An Official Blog. Either way I am prone to make ridiculous tweets in the vein of LeviathanPride, ForTweetsSake, IanSquirtus, etc, cause I think that sort of stuff is real funny. But I will never seriously endorse violence of any kind, even “emotional violence”, hahaha. http://tl.gd/h02p32 ·

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